It's funny you want SLANDER Wiki, everyone thinks it's cool to blow them off, but I find them fast and accurate, and I don't care if you score cheap points that way.

I'm not slandering wiki at all, in fact far from it. I merely suggested that you pick better references. Besides, why would I condemn your reference when it agrees with everything I have stated? And since you find it accurate, that's good enough for me. The problem comes in when, if you look at wiki, you get different info on the same page regarding the same thing. So, lets look at your wiki page:

Its definition of the Holocaust is as follows:

The Holocaust is the term generally used to describe the genocide of approximately six million European Jews during World War II, a program of systematic state-sponsored extermination by Nazi Germany, under Adolf Hitler, its allies, and collaborators.

Now, if you read all the other headings to include the second paragraph of the beginning of the link where in it states the following:

Some scholars maintain that the definition of the Holocaust should also include the Nazis' systematic murder of millions of people in other groups, including Catholics, ethnic Poles, the Romani, Soviet civilians, Soviet prisoners of war, people with disabilities, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, and other political and religious opponents.

Now, under the heading of Extermenation Camps

Approx. number killed at each extermination camp (Source: Yad Vashem[106]);  Camp name Killed. Auschwitz II 1,400,000  Belzec 600,000 Chelmno 320,000 Jasenovac 600,000  Majdanek 360,000  Maly Trostinets 65,000  Sobibór 250,000  Treblinka 870,000

Now lets look at the numbers of peoples killed at these camps, and keep in mind the total is not the total of only Jews but it also includes those that were not Jewish. Footnote 108. The total above come out to approx. 4.4M of which not all were Jews. Thus the 1.2 - 3M number I previously alluded to.

Now lets look on the same page and under the heading Victims and death toll we find the total of Jews killed to be approximately 5.9M with the footnote of 177, which links to Dawidowicz, Lucy. The War Against the Jews, Bantam, 1986.p. 403, this number fails to take into account the Toronto Trial of 1988 and the reduction of total number from Yad Vesham and the Polish Government in 1990, for which I have supplied. She was also a passionate Zionist.

that your anti semetic

Redefining what is anti-semite doesn't bode well for you. I am anti-zionist, I suggest you learn the difference between the two.

I point our your inconsistency you try and point out mine, all the while sowing more seeds of doubt for the more then willing doubters (the weak brained).  You love it.  Let's remind ourselves how this got started.  Your response to Mary after some one made an off handed comment comparing Lou Dobbs and his Mexican wife, and Hitler and some Jewish blood.  You picked the scab and then we got this.

Mary.  "We all know that it took far more than a physical disease to create the make-up of this mass murdering monster."

L. Reigns. "Please show an order that Hitler gave to kill the Jews. Then ask yourself why is it that every book/historian out their blames Himler and Heydriech for it."

Case closed, you're creepy.  We should both be banned for having this discussion on an immigration blog.  There's enough bad undercurrents as it is!

What is the point of these arguments/debates?? normally you would look at info people give here, do some research and deem it credible or not. whats the point if you're not even willing to learn???

If you're angry at the world and illegal immigrants, and a black President, and poor ol Lou leaving and blah blah blah....... maybe you need to dig deeper!???

this kind of anger and hatred tends to stem from a) ignorance (lack of knowledge and understanding) b) or something else you are truly unhappy about in your life.

No human being if it came down to it (with the exception of a few of course) would be so thoughtless and unkind to another human being??! or would they??.

Most of the people who rant and rave are NEVER personally affected by any of these "issues"

With that insightful commentary YOU should have just shut down a few people here!!! 

hey.......... i dont wanna shut no one down mate!!! :-)

normally you would look at info people give here, do some research and deem it credible or not. whats the point if you're not even willing to learn?

That's the problem, nobody in here actually does their research. Hitler is blamed simply because he was in charge of the country/movement, for which he should be, but they fail to recognize what Hitler was trying to do prior to WW2. I already gave the information regarding Hitler and the laws of the 1930's (the Haavara Agreement of 1933, and to the race laws of 1935), yet I was labeled. Gary looks for any excuse to NOT answer or dialogue his ignorant statements. Instead they designate you as non-credible. They beleive in only their way of thinking, and that actual facts don't change thier minds.

With the rest of your argument above, who in here is showing hatred? Who in here is in some way thoughtless or unkind in regards to another human being?

Liquid I'm guessing, but I'll wager you have post its, ripped out pages- you name it tacked to your walls.  Your armed to the teeth- over what?  Look at the thread, 4 above this one, ash bibi's- get something out of it.  You and a few others have done more to drive me over to the other side then anything I've seen in my real day- off line.

As for Herr Schickelgruber, say you were 100% right, which you're not, since the piece of filth died in the bunker, let's use Goring an example; are you suggesting he was exhibit A at Nuremberg because he was responsible for the London Blitz?  Do you get my drift?  grrrrrr, people want to argue over global warming, we haven't even settled WW 2 yet. 

Liquid, I don't know the first thing about people who are Holocaust deniers, but you're too smart to believe Hitler wasn't 100% responsible for all those millions of deaths.  What's more likely is that this subtle wording of yours is really a tactic, a first step,  for fooling the real idiots out there, now, and in future generations.

 Posted by Gary Stein on 11/16/2009 @ 05:59PM PT

What is it you said above, Gary.... you state my mind is clamped shut, maybe you are really describing yourself and not me. I am not denying Hitler was in charge, I am questioning the supposed order that was interpreted to be the "Final Solution". As for the total number of 6M in the Holocaust, that number has been revised to approximately 1.2M - 3M, by all historians. Might I suggest you do your research and look to the Toronto Trial in 1988 along with all the evidence contradicting much of what has been assumed by hearsay.

I am not denying that there were deaths of Jews at the hands of the German Military nor am I denying the Holocaust. What I want you to do is to prove there was an order directly from Hitler to exterminate the jews and not an order to relocate them. Take into account and remember that "clamped mind" statement you said I have?!

There's that clamped mind of yours coming out. Your point is simple, they are all guilty due to your determination of hearsay. I ask you to show an Order that was given by Hitler, you can't. You can't even state when anything took place, yet they are all guilty of what you deem them.

I have stated earlier that Hitler was guilty for allowing it to happen, simply because he was the elected in charge. As for denial, the only denial here is your inability to point out any factual evidence to back your statements.

(cough)  see my response to you way up top under mary's thread.  I know you know that liquid, but someone looking in later might not be able to follow the sequence, you have to look at the dates and times anyone seeing this for the first time.  maybe the German FBI for instance?  Is it still a crime for a German to preach Holocaust denial?  You're safe here in the U.S. Liquids.

Rob M. I'd love to engage you over at another more recent story.  What about the one whose headline starts off Axelrod....

funny how there's only 8 comments on that story, a 150+ on this one, and that shows more hits then this one?  You could think conspiracy about anything if you try (lol).

You know I have more complaints about the rotten Mexican government then any two right wingers put together?